5

My opponent controls a tapped Nettle Sentinel, and has cast 1 copy of Glimpse of Nature this turn.

They then play an Elvish Visionary, and in response I do nothing.

The stack starts to resolve and my opponent draws 2 cards which is evidence the Glimpse of nature and Elvish Visionary have resolved.

They then move to untap their Nettle Sentinel. In this instance because the abilities on the stack would be resolving out of order, did they miss the Nettle Sentinel's triggered ability or is this covered by out of order sequencing?

  • 2
    This is a judging question. As with all judging questions there is no single absolutely correct answer. It will depend on if the judge feels seeing the extra card has any relevance to the decision to untap. (And if they actually looked at the card or just had it in their hand because they reached across the table to do everything at once.) (And to some extent REL even though it really shouldn't matter.) – Affe May 14 '13 at 16:23
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Before examining the merits, let's keep in mind that it's a very natural out of order sequencing since he could end up doing draw-untap-draw otherwise.

The limit on out of order sequencing is:

An out-of-order sequence must not result in a player prematurely gaining information which could reasonably affect decisions made later in that sequence.

If he hesitates after drawing but before untapping, he's clearly in error. Out-of-order sequencing is not an excuse for doing something you forgot to do earlier.

On the other end of the spectrum, if he says "I draw two and untap" and proceeds to do so, it's clearly ooos and not a problem.

So what if he silently proceeds to draw two and untap? It's undeniable that information is gained, but that's not sufficient to prevent ooos. It comes down to whether the draw reasonably affects whether Nettle Sentinel the player untaps the Sentinel or not, and there's no guidelines for determining this.

Drawing probably doesn't affect his choice — it's hard to imagine that he'd decide whether he'd untap or not based on what he drew — so it's probably ok.

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  • bear in mind he can stack the triggers how he likes, so could untap draw draw. – Patters May 15 '13 at 7:53
  • @Rawrgramming, I noticed that and noticed my wording implied otherwise, so I had fixed it within seconds of posting. But I was having network connections, and I guess that got lost. Fixed it again. – ikegami May 15 '13 at 15:08
  • Note that I'm assuming he didn't hesitate after drawing. Oos is not an excuse for doing something you forgot to do earlier. It's clear an error if he hesitates. On the other end of the spectrum, if he says "I draw two and untap" and proceeds to do so, it's clearly fine. – ikegami May 15 '13 at 23:21
  • having said all of this, what if i want to respond to him untapping, but dont want to give that away until after he untaps (a perfectly reasonable situation) and then am shocked to find he has already drawn 2 cards and hasnt untapped. as his opponent, i am surely put at quite a disadvantage by this if it is ruled as OOOS? – Patters May 16 '13 at 9:01
  • @Rawrgramming, You get to roll back his second draw. If he announces what he's going to do, you could even interrupt ("in response"), shortening his shortcut. – ikegami May 16 '13 at 9:10
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Your opponent should have chosen to untap Nettle Sentinel before drawing his second card (the card drawn when Elvish Visionary entered the battle field). Normally, out-of-order sequencing would allow actions like this.

However, You could argue that he missed the trigger due to the fact that he received extra information that influenced his decision to untap by drawing the second card

An out-of-order sequence must not result in a player prematurely gaining information which could reasonably affect decisions made later in that sequence.

http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/WPN/Main/Documents/Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules_PDF2.pdf

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