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If you made a concealed Kan on the first turn and won on the extra tile that you drew, would you get Heaven/Earth?

Do your own concealed Kans interrupt the game flow, or does it only apply when someone else steals a discard?

A similar example: Kanning into first turn riichi. Is it considered a first turn riichi?

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Warning: not exactly familiar with the term Riichi, nor with the specific Mahjong ruleset Riichi Mahjong (Henceforth, RMJ).

In the books I've read, and the 3 different published rulesets I've played (One of which was a 1960's Japanese rulebook translation), the functional definition of "on the first turn" is "without having discarded."

Having just read the rules for Riichi from the EMJA, the rules for Riichi Blessing of Heaven (East out on deal), Blessing of Earth (non-east out on self-drawn tile), and Bleassing of Man (non-east out on claimed discard) forbid concealed Kong.

Both the RMJ rules and the 1 of the rulesets I've played agree that any play after a discard is claimed is no longer first turn.

TLDR: in the Riichi ruleset, yes, Kans/Kongs do preclude the "first turn" bonuses.

  • Late to the game, but the answer doesn't follow your explanation. When you claim a concealed kan, you haven't yet discarded a tile. By that logic alone, this should work. – Samthere May 16 '18 at 8:33
  • It's still the player's move to make, but the turn jumps due to how game histories are recorded. The first answer to be posted here detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1284613757 is quite explicit and answers in full detail. It's probably better than my own response to the StackExchange question, it would just have to be translated. – Senjooooo May 20 '18 at 15:40
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As the question refers to game flow, the short answer is yes. {OP MainQ}

The long answer is that calling a kan (closed or not) does three things:

First, It will break time-sensitive bonuses: any calls to meldwarning tiles into a group is registered as incrementing the turn count. It is properly understood that when open calls occur, this is the case. However, because of how game records are written manually in Japan (at least before the advent of computers), this definition extends to closed calls of quads (ankan 暗槓) as well: the call is what leads to an interruption, not just the act of melding for open stuff or "assembling" a closed group. If East can call kan on the first turn, the turn counter will immediately increment to turn 2, and the following become no longer possible:

  • East can no longer call its starter yakuman (tenhou 天和). {OP Sub1, OPSub2 implied}
  • East can no longer call double riichi for a 2-han yaku (1 more than the standard 1-han yaku for riichi) {OP Sub3, OP Sub2 still implied}
  • South/West/North can no longer call for the rarely-accepted-yet-also-not-stable-valued pre-start yaku renhou (人和) that in Japanese mahjong refers to winning before even drawing. Assuming that you may be in a placce that accepts this, the bonus could be either a flat score of mangan, baiman, or yakuman... or a standard yaku that could be worth 4 or 5 han.
  • South/West/North can no longer call their starter yakuman (chiihou 地和).
  • South/West/North can no longer call double riichi.

The above are all shutdown from the moment a closed kan occurs. If East does nothing, but West decides to make a closed kan, then naturally everything above that can be restricted applies from that point.

Second, a closed kan interrupts the one-shot bonus yaku (ippatsu 一発, 1-han bonus yaku) later in the game when the kan follows a riichi call that just happened prior, just like any of the open calls. Riichi is a declaration and not a call, thus two/three consecutive riichi calls can both earn ippatsu.

Third, it does alter the game flow, since the player calling takes a tile from the replacement stacks in the dead wall, and the tile at the end of the live wall dies. Japanese mahjong stops the game with 14 tiles remaining in the dead wall, not simply where the backbreak occured at the start of the game.

TL;DR: Closed kan calls break ippatsu (and miracle starts), but are also considered for other purposes to be "not melds" (from Japanese wikipedia: 副露に含まれない) and "not opening the hand". Confusion is normal, but this is how things work in riichi mahjong.

Extra disclaimer: Non-japanese variants of mahjong have different rules, different things (HK 地和 is winning off first East discard, nothing special for S/W/N players), and none of them have double riichi, except probably local rules established in the Manchuria area of Northern China.) so this post is only an authority in its sphere of influence. Even the language surrounding what a turn is varies by language, so I'm not even going to start on that.

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