11

I was wondering what is the technically highest score one can achieve in Seven Wonders (with Cities and Leaders) in a 3+ player game, considering all players are working with the performer.

Has anyone heard of an algorithm that calculates that, or some information about it? I've tried get out my head around it but there are SO MANY parameters that I'm almost tempted to brute-force this solution.

Any ideas or information?

  • This would be extremely complicated to calculate, and it would take too long to brute force. – ikegami May 17 '15 at 20:35
  • Science might be the way to go - it has a slow start, but the last few science buildings would each give very large bonuses. – PotatoEngineer May 17 '15 at 21:08
  • Well yeah but you need the res to build it and it just seems really hard to play all possible science cards each age while being allowed to actually play them. I think this has to be done in a 7+ game for some manoeuverability in the decks – Gil Sand May 17 '15 at 21:10
  • Or a 3 player game so that cards cycle faster. Science is probably the way to go, with science-based leaders (probably extra symbols), and with Mannekin Pis to the right of the Great Wall so you can double build the spy wonder stage. Babylon (A) to the right for the bonus science symbol. Neighbours build resources and enough science to steal while feeding gold into the main player. – Samthere May 18 '15 at 8:51
  • If you start with the leader that plays science for one less resource, you can play just about all of them for free and skip almost all resources. – bwarner May 18 '15 at 13:16
8

I believe I can get to 231 using the restrictions of the OP, being a 3 player game and only the Leaders and Cities expansions.

Wonders used are Byzantium (A) West, Babylon (B) You, and Roma (B) East.

A summary of the points are:

Military - 16 - from an Age II Stables

Coins - 27 - finish with 82 coins from neighbours purchasing from you, Gambling House&Den and coins from chaining through Vitruvius Leader

Wonder - 3 - from first stage on Babylon (B)

Civilian - 6 - from Age III Senate

Science - 110 - 5 sets, 11 greens + Spy Ring to copy the 12th, Multis from Babylon Stage 3 and Scientists Guild and 1 more symbol using Courtesans Guild to copy West's Leader

Guilds - 27 - all from Gamers Guild (coins)

Leaders - 42 - 15 from Aristotle for 5 sets and 27 from Midas (coins).

The full log of what is played each turn and how the money flows is in the picture below. Hopefully there are no mistakes, however happy to get corrections and/or improvements.

Enjoy! Brett.

7 Wonders max score for 3 players using Leaders and Cities

  • My restrictions are 3+, not 3 ! That justs means 3 and above :p – Gil Sand Jun 3 '15 at 8:11
  • Bit 231 is crazy, I haven't verified it but... Well played! – Gil Sand Jun 3 '15 at 8:16
5

I have a score of 250 points, using Leaders, Cities and 2 wonders from the Wonder Pack. I score 229 from science, 18 from war and 3 from coins.

The strategy focuses on science, and grabs an easy 18 bonus points with a first age war card. See the image at the bottom of this answer for an example game.


Goals

The main player has the following goals:

  • Buy all 3 science leaders.
  • Build every science card:
    • 3 in the first age.
    • 4 in the second age.
    • 5 in the third age.
  • Build 3 science symbols from the wonder.
  • Build the Scientists Guild.
  • Build the spy city card each age.
  • Win all wars.

The science, guild and spy cards, along with the 3 wonder stages, take up 19 of MP's 21 plays. This leaves 2 plays. Because MP has no starting resource, one of these plays should be a resource so that the neighbours can buy from MP. A clay pit (ore/brick) will be used in 6 of MP's core plays, saving the most money while providing variety to allow neighbours to purchase. The remaining free play is a first age war card to win all the wars.


Setup

My example uses duplicate Palace and Observatory, so requires 7 players.

  • The main player (MP) is Mannekin Pis (A).
  • To the right is Babylon (A).
  • To the left is The Great Wall (A)
  • To the far right is anyone.
  • To the far left is Roma (B).

Leaders

This uses the 3 science leaders:

  • Pythagoras (gear).
  • Ptolemy (tablet).
  • Euclid (compass).

Wonder Stages

MP's wonder must be completed by the end of the second age as there are no spare plays in the third. Thanks to the choice of neighbours, you can end up with 3 science symbols from the MP. When MP copies from the Great Wall, MP chooses which stage to build.

  • First stage: choose free science from China A.
  • Second stage: free science from Babylon.
  • Third stage: choose free science from China A again.

Neighbours' Responsibilities

Between them, MP's neighbours must do the following:

  • Build the resources MP needs.
  • Feed MP enough money to keep buying resources and leaders.
  • Build 3 different green science cards with the same symbol.
  • If war cards have been built, build diplomacy every round to allow MP to win wars.

Scoring Science

Assuming that your neighbours have built the appropriate duplicate green cards, spy symbols become free choice.

  • 1 of each symbol from the 3 leaders.
  • 4 of each symbol from the green cards.
  • 3 free choice from MP wonder (2 from China, 1 from Babylon).
  • 1 free choice from the Scientists Guild.
  • 3 free choice from city spy cards.

Using all 7 free choice symbols as a single symbol (cogs for this example), we have 12 of one symbol and 5 of each of the two others.

    |Gear |Comp |Tabl | Set |
Num |  12 |   5 |   5 |   5 |
Sco | 144 +  25 +  25 +  35 = 229

Example Game

Example Science Game

Click here for the full-size image.

  • China builds military to feed MP coins in the first age, and then builds diplomacy every round. Thus Roma builds no war.
  • Roma builds as many brown cards as possible to maximise China's Vineyard.
  • Babylon builds no war.
  • Ephesos (far right) builds as many grey cards as possible to maximise Babylon's Bazaar.
  • China and Babylon, between them, build 3 different green science gear cards for MP's spies.
  • MP ends up with 9 coins.
  • I've made it work! Lots of fiddling around to make sure the money is right, but I believe I've done it. Let me know if you find a mistake in the play order, but I think it's correct. – Samthere Jun 5 '15 at 17:52
  • Nice !! Great work ! – Gil Sand Jun 29 '15 at 11:40
4

I'll put forward an approach that if nothing else will set a beginning bar. I'll start with some justification as to how I think you could get the cards you need, and then we'll add up the points at the end.

Let's assume that the gods are smiling upon you (or that your neighbors are idiots) first and foremost. They play the perfect cards, including ones that give you lots of money.

Let's also assume for sake of argument you are sitting next to Rome(B) so you pay less for leaders (and maybe China so you get more money). Let's also assume you got Babylon(B) so you get to keep your second card as well as a wild scientific. This will allow you eight cards each round.
You probably don't need 8 in the first round as it would cost too much.

Now, assume you get one of the three of the leaders that give you a scientific card (Euclid, Ptolemy, or Pythagorus), Ramses (free guilds), and Archimedes (the one that makes each scientific cost one less).

So, you start out with 3 coins (having paid one less for Archimedes).
Grab a Tavern
Then the Pigeon Loft (A spy mask),
Bury once (5 coins remaining).
If your neighbors played the right cards, you could pick up an additional three coins.
(China First wonder section, and Gambling Den, back up to 8).
Play a military (preferably the Guard Tower so you don't have to pay),
Pick up the three scientific cards (Apothecary, Workshop, and Scriptorium).
(7 cards, first age done).
Win both military battles, and proceed to round two.

Play Ramses or your scientific leader (4 coins gone, down to 4).
Ladder the three scientific cards (Dispensary, Laboratory, and Library),
Buy the School (down to 2 coins),
Have a neighbor play the Gambling House (back to 4 coins),
Get the Vineyard and make boatloads of money
(nice neighbors, you could make 10-14, so lets assume 18 coins now.)
Get the Architect Cabinent
(wanted to get the Spy Ring for the mask, but I think it's just too expensive, this should cost 3, and now your wonders are free)
Bury once (still at 9 coins),
Now you get the 8th card, which you should probably bury for the free scientific.
2nd Age Finished.
Win both military battles again (thank you neighbors).

Play your last leader (down to 5 coins).
Ladder all 5 scientific cards (Lodge, Observatory, University, Academy, and Study).
Pick up the Scientist's Guild (free scientific),
Play Courtesan's Guild (use a neighbors scientific leader),
At some point have your neighbors have purchased enough brick from you that you can afford the Torture Chamber for the final mask.
Third Age over.
Win the final two military battles.

Let's figure out points.

So, all scientific cards (4 full sets), 2 masks, 2 wild scientific, and 2 scientific leaders (assume these fell just right so that you end up with 2 more sets).
So, 18 from military victories, and 6 full sets.
This gives you 150 from scientific with the 18 from military gives a total of 168 points.

4

I'm back with 329 in a 7-player leaders, cities, wonderpack, promo leader game. No science used!

Wonders used are Great Wall (B) Left, Byzantium (B) West, Manneken Pis (B) You, Roma (B) East and Babylon (B) Right.

A summary of the points are:

Military - 18 - from 1 Shield provided by Manneken Pis in Age I

Coins - 77 - finish with 231 coins from neighbours purchasing from you (3 of each basic resource) and generating through Diocletian and straight money cards

Wonder - 7 - from first stage on Manneken Pis

Civilian - 5 - from Age II Aqueduct

Science - 0

Guilds - 107 - 18 from Architects, 12 from Craftsmen and 77 from Gamers

Leaders - 77 - all from Midas

Cities - 38 - 23 printed vps, 6 from 6 military tokens and 9 from 9 Cities cards.

The full log of what is played each turn and how the money flows is in the picture below. I needed to included the Left and Right players to ensure there was enough money to flow eventually to you. Hopefully there are no mistakes, however happy to get corrections and/or improvements.

Enjoy! Brett.

enter image description here

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