Can I win with a "you lose" effect on the stack?

Question

Follow on to this question - with a similar setup, but a slightly different aim.

Setup: I have a Bazaar Trader in play and without summoning sickness and an Immortal Coil in hand. Neither I nor my opponent have any cards in their graveyard.

Question: Is there a way for me to win the game by casting the Immortal Coil and then immediately giving it to my opponent?

What I think happens:

• I cast Immortal Coil
• Immortal Coil resolves
• Immortal Coil checks my graveyard and finds no cards
  • So it puts "I lose the game" on the stack
• In response to that going on the stack I activate Bazaar Trader targeting my opponent and Immortal Coil
  • That goes on the stack too
  • Stack is now {"opponent gains control of Immortal Coil", "I lose the game"}
• Top of the stack resolves and my opponent now controls Immortal Coil
• Immortal Coil checks my opponent's graveyard and finds no cards
  • So it puts "opponent loses the game" on the stack
  • Stack is now {"opponent loses the game", "I lose the game"}
• Top of the stack resolves and my opponent loses

What happens now? Do I win? Or does the other effect in the stack resolve and I also lose?

Answer 1

In general, you could win while a "you lose" effect is on the stack. Winning/losing is a state-based action and the stack doesn't finish resolving if the game is over (e.g. a 2 player game).

However, with the Immortal Coil situation you describe, you lose. This is because the Immortal Coil in question won't create another triggered ability on the stack until the first one isn't there.

603.8. Some triggered abilities trigger when a game state (such as a player controlling no permanents of a particular card type) is true, rather than triggering when an event occurs. These abilities trigger as soon as the game state matches the condition. They'll go onto the stack at the next available opportunity. These are called state triggers. (Note that state triggers aren't the same as state-based actions.) A state-triggered ability doesn't trigger again until the ability has resolved, has been countered, or has otherwise left the stack. Then, if the object with the ability is still in the same zone and the game state still matches its trigger condition, the ability will trigger again.

So the Immortal Coil can't trigger for your opponent until you've already lost the game, unless you're otherwise able to prevent or counter the ability on the stack.

Here's the bit I'm not certain about and will look up, but I think if you could flicker the Immortal Coil once the opponent controls it, it will trigger, because the "new" Immortal Coil has no memory of being attached to the previous ability (still on the stack) and thus will create a new one.

Answer 2

A tricky one, and I fear I might be mistaken, but I suppose the answer still lies in 603.8 rule in the linked question (emphasis mine):

603.8. Some triggered abilities trigger when a game state (such as a player controlling no permanents of a particular card type) is true, rather than triggering when an event occurs. These abilities trigger as soon as the game state matches the condition. They’ll go onto the stack at the next available opportunity. These are called state triggers. (Note that state triggers aren’t the same as state-based actions.) A state-triggered ability doesn’t trigger again until the ability has resolved, has been countered, or has otherwise left the stack. Then, if the object with the ability is still in the same zone and the game state still matches its trigger condition, the ability will trigger again.

Therefore, even if Immortal Coil is now owned by your opponent with no cards in his graveyard, it won't trigger since its ability is on the stack. However, if you, for example Stifle it before it resolves, it will trigger again, but for your opponent now.

Answer 3

One thing to note though is rule 109.5:

The words “you” and “your” on an object refer to the object’s controller, its would-be controller (if a player is attempting to play, cast, or activate it), or its owner (if it has no controller). For a static ability, this is the current controller of the object it’s on. For an activated ability, this is the player who activated the ability. For a triggered ability, this is the controller of the object when the ability triggered, unless it’s a delayed triggered ability. To determine the controller of a delayed triggered ability, see rules 603.7d–f.

To my understanding, this means even if the ability resolves when Immortal Coil is under you opponent's control, the ability will still cause you to lose.

However do see the last part of Vilmar's answer.

Answer 4

The given answers are correct - you can win with a "you lose the game" trigger on the stack as long as you win the game before the trigger resolves. There's actually a known Modern deck that can do exactly this: Ad Nauseaum. You can read more about the deck and how it works here. To quote from the section "Why should you play Ad Nauseam?"

c) Opponent: "I cast [some lethal spell]/swing for lethal."

You: "In response, Pact of Negation/Slaughter Pact. On my turn, untap, upkeep: while the Pact trigger is on the stack, Angel's Grace + Ad Nauseam, draw my entire library, kill you."

In principle Angel's Grace would also keep you alive through the Pact's you-lose-the-game trigger, without having to play Ad Nauseaum.