8

Humility says "all creatures lose all abilities and have base power and toughness 1/1" and Endless One comes into play with X +1/+1 counters.

According to a comment in How to understand Humility once and for all, triggered abilities don't get triggered with Humility, but I'm thinking Endless One's ETB "ability" doesn't count because it's not a triggered ability? Because it doesn't say "when it enters the battlefield X +1/+1 counters are placed on it"?

  • 1
    If you want an easy guide to what is a triggered ability just remember that they begin there sentence with the following three words. Whenever, At the and when. – Neil Meyer Nov 9 '15 at 18:19
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    Back in the day Humility just came out I used to run it with Crovax the Cursed for the same effect. Back then no one was sure how it worked – Andrey Nov 11 '15 at 14:19
12

As of the Ixalan rules update, Endless One will not enter the battlefield with counters if Humility is on the battlefield. As other answers have mentioned, Endless One's ability is a replacement effect that modifies how it enters the battlefield. The new version of rule 614.12 says:

Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities that would apply to it once it’s on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent.

Applying this kind of replacement effect involves checking continuous effects that already exist. Humility's ability is one such continuous effect, and applying it removes the ability that would add the counters.

The Ixalan Comprehensive Rules Update goes into some detail about how this rule changed, and it specifically mentions a similar situation:

Humility causes creatures with modular to enter without their +1/+1 counters.

For reference, the definition of Modular is

Modular represents both a static ability and a triggered ability. “Modular N” means “This permanent enters the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters on it” and “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you may put a +1/+1 counter on target artifact creature for each +1/+1 counter on this permanent.”

The part of the Modular ability that affects how the permanent enters the battlefield has basically the same wording as Endless One's ability, so Endless One's ability is affected the same way by the rules change.

10

You are right that it doesn't affect it because of the below rule, it will get it's counters and it is indeed not a triggered ability:

614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.

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    This makes for a very rare case in which Humility actually makes a creature bigger, by making it a base 1/1 rather than a base 0/0. – JSBձոգչ Oct 6 '15 at 6:20
2

Endless One's ability is not a triggered ability.

112.3c Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[Trigger condition], [effect],” and include (and usually begin with) the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” [...]

Endless One's ability is a replacement effect.

614.1c Effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield with . . . ,” “As [this permanent] enters the battlefield . . . ,” or “[This permanent] enters the battlefield as . . . ” are replacement effects.

Because Endless One's ability is a replacement effect, it ignores continuous effects that are not its own for the purposes of determining how the effect would apply.

614.12. [...] To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.

Although Humility's continuous effect is ignored momentarily, it still applies as the permanent enters. For example:

  • If you pay {0}, then Endless One will enter as a 1/1.
  • If you pay {5}, then Endless One will enter as a 6/6.
-3

The Endless one will be a 1/1, the ETB trigger will not trigger as it never had them. Any replacement effects will be bypassed as they never exsisted.

Rulings sited here.

  • 1
    Link only answers are ill suited for the SE format, since the link target may die over time. Further, your answer is factually wrong; the ability is a replacement effect. – Drunk Cynic Dec 14 '16 at 18:26
  • Ah I had to look into this even more, this all about the wording and since there are many ways in which a card can be worded with ETB, it depends on if it is a trigger or not. – R.R. Dec 15 '16 at 15:40
  • The judges telling you two different things might all be right. The reason is because there are two different "comes into play" abilities. Cards that read "enters the battlefield as", "as X enters the battlefield" or "enters the Battlefield with" don't have triggered abilities, they don't use the stack, and Humility's effect won't touch them. Cards that read "when X enters the batlefield" do have triggered abilities, and Humility will cause them not to have those abilities and not to trigger. – R.R. Dec 15 '16 at 15:40
  • I just wished that MTG would have added the rulings to the card in Gatherer, it would make this so much easier to decipher. – R.R. Dec 15 '16 at 15:43
-3

It really comes down to triggers. That's it. Enters with blank is not a trigger. "When" it enters is. Modular affects the card "as" it enters and then is lost as it hits the field. Still gets the +1+1 but is a 1/1 and now is a 2/2. (A 1/1 with a +1/+1 counter).

  • 1
    You seem to be saying the same thing as two of the existing answers, which are also incorrect because of the change to rule 614.12 that I mentioned in my own answer. – murgatroid99 Sep 4 at 22:13
-5

611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period.

611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.

Example: A permanent with the static ability “All white creatures get +1/+1” is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead creates a 2/2 white creature. The creature doesn’t enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then change to 2/2.

Humility changes "the rules of the game". It affects all creatures no matter where they are (In play, in your hand, graveyard). If Humility is in play, a creature in your hand has no abilities and is a 1/1.

So, if Humility is in play, Endless One (and Hangarback Walker for that matter) has no abilities. You can pay {0} and have a 1/1 creature. If Endless One is already in play when Humility hits the battlefield, Endless One keeps its +1/+1 counters and its base P/T becomes 1/1 instead of 0/0.

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    You are incorrect. Humility only modifies creatures on the battlefield. when something refers to a creature it only means creatures on the battlefield. By this rule: 109.2. If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes a card type or subtype, but doesn’t include the word “card,” “spell,” “source,” or “scheme,” it means a permanent of that card type or subtype on the battlefield. – Ivo Beckers Nov 9 '15 at 9:50
  • This does not answer the question, "Will Endless One enter with counters if Humility is in play?" You never explained what happens if you cast Endless One for some non-zero amount while Humility is already in play. – Rainbolt Nov 9 '15 at 16:16
  • No. You don't have creatures in your hand, you have spells that are Creature cards. – Drunk Cynic Dec 14 '16 at 18:29

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