Can black win here with or without this move? Or is in every way dead?

  • Where is the edge of the board? Oct 8, 2015 at 5:42
  • 1
    What do you mean by "win"? Escape? Live? Kill? Any of the above?
    – goldPseudo
    Oct 8, 2015 at 6:54
  • The edge is in the left and by win I mean kill the White group on the center. Can black live by Killing white?
    – pava
    Oct 8, 2015 at 8:21
  • The move in the picture does not work. White will push down, then atari three times, and then white either captures a stone or connects.
    – mafu
    Oct 8, 2015 at 15:30
  • The only conceivable move for black would be to extend his 5 stones downwards (nobi). If white hane, then black hane, and if white cuts, then black closes white in to try and create a seki - but white can make that fail by creating an eye. And even without that, white has numerous ways to resist this, so it is not at all certain if black can survive. In any case, the white group is alive, while the black group is struggling and 99% dead.
    – mafu
    Oct 8, 2015 at 15:32

2 Answers 2


That is a good try for Black, because it is a "net" play. But it doesn't quite work.

White descends, one spot right of the "marked stone. Black "fills" below. White cuts to the southeast, atariing two Black stones, Black escapes. White cuts again south of the marked stone, atariing one Black stone, Black escapes.

White's next move to the left is an atari on the marked stone, and the following move connects to the White stones to the left, while trapping five Black stones.

  • After White's hane response to the marked stone, what happens if Black plays two below the lone White in the lower right, instead of counter-hane-ing? Then Tiger mouth and Black has initiative to move elsewhere This seems a slightly better sequence for Black. Oct 9, 2015 at 4:16
  • And without the marked stone can black live not in seki?
    – pava
    Oct 9, 2015 at 13:55

If it is white to play then he pushes through and cuts and this will probably result in both groups living. White will capture the two stones on the right and Black will escape out the bottom.

If it is black to play then he can capture the white stones by playing at the point above the marked stone. It is easy to see that in that situation Black has four external liberties, but White has only three internal and external liberties combined and therefore it is not a seki, Black will win.

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