8

Archangel Avacyn says (in addition to other abilities): "When a non-Angel creature you control dies, transform Archangel Avacyn at the beginning of the next upkeep".

Since the triggered ability isn't the actual transform ability, but instead creates a delayed triggered ability, if you put it on the stack while another trigger wants to transform Avacyn, will she transform back? (e.g. Non-Angel died. Go to upkeep, another non-Angel dies. Will she transform back on the next upkeep?)

  • Please note: i have completely rewritten my answer to take the new rules update into account. – murgatroid99 Mar 30 '16 at 15:40
12

No, Avacyn will not transform again at the following upkeep.

The new rule 701.25e says

If an activated ability of a permanent tries to transform that permanent, the permanent transforms only if it hasn't transformed since the ability was put onto the stack. The same is true for triggered abilities of a permanent that aren't delayed triggered abilities. If a delayed triggered ability of a permanent tries to transform that permanent, the permanent transforms only if it hasn't transformed since that delayed triggered ability was created.

Avacyn's ability creates a delayed triggered ability, so the last clause is the relevant one. So, the situation you describe plays out like this:

  1. A non-Angel creature dies. Archangel Avacyn's triggered ability goes on the stack.
  2. Archangel Avacyn's triggered ability resolves, and creates a delayed triggered ability.
  3. At the beginning of the next upkeep, the delayed triggered ability goes on the stack.
  4. Another non-Angel creature dies. Archangel Avacyn's triggered ability goes on the stack.
  5. Archangel Avacyn's triggered ability resolves, and creates a second delayed triggered ability.
  6. The original delayed triggered ability resolves. Archangel Avacyn has not transformed since that delayed triggered ability was created, so Archangel Avacyn transforms into Avacyn, the Purifier.
  7. At the beginning of the following upkeep, the second delayed triggered ability goes on the stack.
  8. The second delayed trigger resolves. Avacyn has transformed since the second delayed triggered ability was created, so she does not transform, and remains Avacyn, the Purifier.
  • Do we actually have the new comp. rules text, or is this just based off of Tabak's article on the mothership? – Hao Ye Mar 26 '16 at 4:59
  • 5
    For now, this is just from the article. I'll update it when we have the actual rules update. – murgatroid99 Mar 26 '16 at 5:46
  • So does this mean after step 8 Avacyn will be back to the white side? – Robert Wertz Mar 29 '16 at 14:34
  • if the trigger specified the exact name of the card, would that mean the second trigger would fizzle as has a different name? – esoterik Mar 29 '16 at 22:14
  • No. The ability does say "transform Archangel Avacyn", and that doesn't matter. That point is why I specifically reference the cards that can flip-flop under the current rules. For example, Bloodline Keeper's ability says "Transform Bloodline Keeper", but if you activate it twice, it can transform Lord of Lineage into Bloodline Keeper. The quoted rules change simply prevents that sort of thing from happening under certain conditions. – murgatroid99 Mar 29 '16 at 22:23
-5

I believe that Archangel Avacyn will only transform the one time. The reasoning behind this is that her transformed side doesn't give her the option to transform again like the werewolves have or even Arlinn Kord. Having her being able to transform back and forth due to a bunch of delayed triggers seems to go beyond the designer's intent. This would allow you to nuke the opponent's board and bolt them for every trigger.

There's also this rule: 701.25d Some triggered abilities trigger when an object “transforms into” an object identified by name. Such an ability triggers only if that object didn’t have the specified name immediately before the transform instruction and does have the specified name immediately after the transform instruction.

Since the ability tells you to transform Archangel Avacyn once she's transformed she no longer has that name and the ability won't try to transform her again.

  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Pat Ludwig Mar 29 '16 at 19:16
  • This answer describes the correct outcome, but not for the right reason. Developer intent does not dictate the rules. Changing the name does not change what an ability affects. 701.25d is irrelevant to the question. But the new rule 701.25e does clearly indicate that Avacyn will only transform once. – murgatroid99 Mar 30 '16 at 16:23
  • 1
    My original answer was correct given the information we had at the time, and my edited answer is correct given the information that we have now. Yes, it is true that your conclusion turned out to be correct, but your reasoning is entirely incorrect, and just coincidentally resulted in a conclusion that matched information that was later released. – murgatroid99 Mar 30 '16 at 18:22
  • I had quoted 2 articles days ago, both of which supported my correct answer which you refused to acknowledge. I'd rather be right for the wrong reasons than completely wrong. Just because I don't quote chapter and verse doesn't mean that I'm wrong. I can't recite all of Newton's laws but I still know gravity works. – Louis Lopez Apr 1 '16 at 14:07
  • 1
    @LouisLopez Yes, we do prefer that answers provide (correct) explanation as well as correct answers. (See for example how to answer in the help.) We may have high standards, but that doesn't make them unfair. And above all, we ask that you always be nice. – Cascabel Apr 4 '16 at 17:59

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