When Scion of the Ur-Dragon enters the battlefield it attracts a lot of hate. So my plan is to reanimate it using Torrent of Souls to hit a surprise 16 damage attack using Scion's ability to copy Atarka, World Render. To do this I need to copy Atarka first and then attack. I want to know if Scion will lose the haste obtained from Torrent of Souls when it copy Atarka. Are there other sources of haste that disappear when Scions copy a dragon?

  • I can see at least 3 different questions here. Please clarify exactly what you want to know. Do you want to know whether your overall plan of 16 damage works, do you want to know whether the copied Atarka loses haste, or do you want to know whether there are other sources of haste that disappear when copying? Pleaase modify your answer accordingly, don't answer this in a comment. Also note that "transform" is a term with a different meaning in MtG, you are talking about "copying".
    – Hackworth
    May 3, 2016 at 18:11
  • @Hackworth The first two "questions" have the same answer. I added the third question as a bonus to avoid spamming question that are too related. I will edit the question to use the right terminology. May 3, 2016 at 18:25

1 Answer 1


Determining how continuous effects interact is done using a system of layers (see also: How do Layers work?)

  1. Copy
  2. Control
  3. Text
  4. Type
  5. Color
  6. Add/Remove
  7. Power

In this case, Torrent and Scion both create continuous effects that affect the P/T and abilities. Layers gives us the order in which to apply them, even if the effects were created in a different order.

Scion's copy ability applies in layer 1. So, there, it becomes a copy of Atarka.
Torrent's haste and +2/+0 are applied in layers 6 and 7. So, "Atarka" gains haste and +2/+0.

When "Atarka" attacks, it gains another ability in layer 6. It doesn't conflict with anything, so it's just added. So, you'd have an 8/4 Flying Haste Double-Strike after declare attackers.

  • 3
    I think this answer needs more setup to explain why layers are relevant: i.e. that Torrent of Souls and Scion's copy ability are generating continuous effects.
    – Hao Ye
    May 3, 2016 at 19:41
  • 1
    Also, it would be nice to have a little more detail about the layer system and the relevant layers, instead of just a link to another question asking for that information.
    – murgatroid99
    May 3, 2016 at 23:17

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