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I control Pyromancer Ascension that has enough quest counters on it:

Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell (...), you may copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.

I play Grapeshot. Suppose I've cast 3 spells this turn, so I will Storm 3 times if Grapeshot resolves normally. Pyromancer Ascension is going to copy it. Now what happens?

  • Grapeshot goes on the stack Stormed thrice, then the copy goes on the stack Stormed 4 times.

  • Both Grapeshot and the copy goes on the stack Stormed thrice.

I'm not very familiar with the Storm mechanic or the copy mechanic. Please correct me if I'm totally wrong.

  • 3
    Grapeshot isn't multicolored. – Drunk Cynic Oct 22 '16 at 1:38
  • In fact, there are no multicolored cards with Storm. Would you mind editing it to use a different copy effect, like Twincast? – murgatroid99 Oct 22 '16 at 1:47
  • Also, consider this: the Storm ability itself makes copies of the spell. What do you think would happen if the Storm ability also triggered for copies of spells? – murgatroid99 Oct 22 '16 at 1:48
  • I have edited the question to reference Pyromancer Ascension, a very close match to the original enchantment that's actually going to work here. Indeed, Cloven Casting won't apply and Grapeshot isn't multicoloured — multicoloured spells are those which are more than one of: white, blue, black, red, or green. (Grapeshot is just red. A generic mana cost a la the {1} doesn't affect the colour.) – doppelgreener Oct 23 '16 at 13:55
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Short answer: neither copy effect copies the copies made by the other. They only copy the one original spell.


Consider a hypothetical enchantment, Super Cloven Casting, which says

Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, you may pay {1}. If you do, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.

This specifies an ability that triggers whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell.

The storm ability also specifies an ability that triggers whenever you cast a spell with storm.

So here is what happens when you cast Grapeshot with Super Cloven Casting in play:

  1. We start with an empty stack and 3 spells having been cast this turn - in other words, a storm count of 3.

    Stack: (empty)

    Storm count: 3

  2. You cast Grapeshot (put it on the stack, choose its target, pay its cost), and in the process, two abilities trigger: one from Grapeshot's own Storm, and the other from Super Cloven Casting. These go on the stack on top of Grapeshot, though you get to choose the order. It turns out not to matter, so I will choose one order to demonstrate.

    Stack:

    • Super Cloven Casting triggered ability
    • Storm triggered ability
    • Grapeshot

    Storm count: 4 including Grapeshot

  3. Both players yield priority (decline to cast or activate anything), so the top item on the stack resolves. This gives you the choice to pay {1}, and let's assume you do so, so it copies Grapeshot.

    Stack:

    • Copy of Grapeshot (created by Super Cloven Casting)
    • Storm triggered ability
    • Grapeshot

    Storm count: 4 including Grapeshot

    Note that the copy does not add to the storm count. When you copy a spell which was already cast, the copy does not count as being cast.

  4. Both players yield priority, so the top item on the stack resolves. This is a copy of Grapeshot. It deals one damage to its target.

    Stack:

    • Storm triggered ability
    • Grapeshot

    Storm count: 4 including Grapeshot

  5. Both players yield priority, so the top item on the stack resolves. This creates a copy of Grapeshot for each other spell cast this turn: that'll be 3 copies.

    Stack:

    • Copy of Grapeshot (created by Storm)
    • Copy of Grapeshot (created by Storm)
    • Copy of Grapeshot (created by Storm)
    • Grapeshot

    Storm count: 4 including Grapeshot

  6. Both players yield priority, so the top item on the stack resolves. This is a copy of Grapeshot. It deals one damage to its target.

    Stack:

    • Copy of Grapeshot (created by Storm)
    • Copy of Grapeshot (created by Storm)
    • Grapeshot

    Storm count: 4 including Grapeshot

  7. Both players yield priority, so the top item on the stack resolves. This is a copy of Grapeshot. It deals one damage to its target.

    Stack:

    • Copy of Grapeshot (created by Storm)
    • Grapeshot

    Storm count: 4 including Grapeshot

  8. Both players yield priority, so the top item on the stack resolves. This is a copy of Grapeshot. It deals one damage to its target.

    Stack:

    • Grapeshot

    Storm count: 4 including Grapeshot

  9. Both players yield priority, so the top item on the stack resolves. This is the original Grapeshot. It deals one damage to its target.

    Stack: (empty)

    Storm count: 4

All together, there have been a total of 4 copies of Grapeshot and the one original Grapeshot, for a total of 5 damage.

  • You can choose the order the fictional enchantment and Storm ability enter the stack. – Drunk Cynic Oct 22 '16 at 13:42
  • Yes, I mentioned that in the answer. – David Z Oct 22 '16 at 14:10
  • I have edited the question to mention Pyromancer Ascension instead. – doppelgreener Oct 23 '16 at 13:56
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Neither of those events happen. Discounting the illegal interaction between Cloven Casting and Grapeshot, instead reference Twincast or Howl of the Horde.

Simplest path: you've cast 3 spells this turn, then cast Grapeshot. When you cast Grapeshot, you create copies of it for each spell you cast before it.

There are 4 objects named Grapeshot on the Stack, 3 copies and 1 represented by the card.

You then cast Twincast, targeting a copy of Grapeshot on the stack. You create an additional copy, but since you didn't cast this Grapeshot, the Storm effect doesn't Trigger.

5 objects named Grapeshot are on the stack, 4 copies and 1 represented by a card.

  • To be pedantic, I would say "When you cast Grapeshot", not "As". In the rules, "As" indicates a replacement effect, and "When" indicates a triggered ability, so I think it's a bit confusing to mix up the convention here. – murgatroid99 Oct 22 '16 at 1:58
  • @murgatroid99 no issue with being pedantic; I prefer it when discussing interactions to avoid ambiguities. Corrected. – Drunk Cynic Oct 22 '16 at 2:00
  • I have edited the question to mention Pyromancer Ascension instead. – doppelgreener Oct 23 '16 at 13:55

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