I have a Wormfang Manta on battlefield and a Worldgorger Dragon in graveyard. Would targeting the Worldgorger Dragon with Animate Dead create infinite turns, or would the two triggers cancel out?
Just for a suggestion, if you are running red dragons try splashing green and use Savage Ventmaw and Aggravated Assault. That will give you infinite combat phases/Main Phases and infinite manna– ThunderToesJan 24, 2018 at 7:49
No, you will not gain infinite turns with this combo.
To break down the interaction:
- You control a Wormfang Manta (and have already skipped one turn).
- You cast Animate Dead targeting your Worldgorger Dragon, animate dead resolves and your Worldgrorger's ETB triggers.
- Worldgorger's ETB exiles all your permanents, including Animate Dead and Wormfang Manta. Wormfang's and Animate Dead's leave the battlefield effects trigger (you can choose the order they go on the stack, I will choose Wormfang on top of Animate Dead).
- Wormfang's LTB resolves, you gain an extra turn after this one. You now have +1 turn after this one.
- Animate Dead's LTB resolves, you sacrifice Worldgorger Dragon. Worldgorger's LTB triggers.
- Wormfang Manta and Animate Dead enter the battlefield (you choose the order they go on the stack, I will choose Wormfang on top of Animate Dead). You target Worldgorger with Animate Dead.
- Wormfang Manta's ETB resolves you skip your next turn. The next time you were to take a turn, you will now skip it instead.
- Animate Dead resolves, you bring Worldgorger back and start the whole thing over again.
So you can continuously flicker the Worldgorger with animate dead. Each time Wormfang Manta leaves the battlefield you will get an extra turn, but each time it enters the battlefield you will need to skip your next turn. So effectively you are back where you started again.
If you are looking for some infinite turns with Wormfang Manta, perhaps try something with Torpor Orb and something to flicker your Wormfang like Eldrazi Displacer?
"you bring Worldgorger back and start the whole thing over again" - I'm curious - does this mean you are in an infinite loop and if so is there some rules that allow you to break out of this? I should note that I ask this as a non-magic player who has an interest in how rules are constructed so wondering if they anticipated this and dealt with it and if so how. Will happily break it into a new question if the answer is likely to be lengthy...– ChrisJan 24, 2018 at 11:13
1@Chris If you have some other creature than the Worldgorger to reanimate, you could do that (in fact, the game rules force you to eventually break out of a loop if you have to make an active choice to keep it going). If you have some way to move Worldgorger, either from the battlefield or the graveyard, into any other zone, or destroy the reanimate before it can be exiled by the worldgorger, then the loop stops (here you and your opponent are allowed to let the loop run indefinitely into a draw without doing anything even if you do have the means to stop it).– ArthurJan 24, 2018 at 13:13
The crux of the matter is that Wormfang Manta leaves the battlefield, giving you an extra turn, but is then returned to the battlefield, causing you to skip your next turn. Since your next turn is the extra one, it is skipped. Effectively, the two effects cancel one another.
You get a bunch of extra turns, but unfortunately you have to skip all of them.
Let's walk through the steps to get a clear picture of what happens. I'll refer to "enters the battlefield" and "leaves the battlefield" triggers as ETB and LTB, respectively.
- Animate Dead resolves.
- Animate Dead's ETB trigger triggers.
- Animate Dead's ETB trigger resolves. You return Worldgorger Dragon to the battlefield and attach Animate Dead to it.
- Worldgorger's ETB trigger triggers.
- Worldgorger's ETB trigger resolves. You exile Animate Dead and Wormfang.
- Wormfang's LTB trigger and the delayed trigger set up by Animate Dead both trigger. It doesn't matter how you order the triggers. Resolving Animate Dead first would result in a large number of Wormfang triggers all resolving at the end of the loop, and the route we'll take will have them resolve one at a time.
- Wormfang's trigger resolves. You get an extra turn after this one.
- Animate Dead's delayed trigger resolves. You sacrifice Worldgorger.
- Worldgorger triggers.
- Worldgorger's trigger resolves. You return Animate Dead and Wormfang to the battlefield.
- Wormfang's ETB and Animate Dead's ETB triggers both trigger. Again, it doesn't matter how you order the triggers. If we wanted to, we could build up a large pile of Wormfang triggers and resolve them all at the end of the loop. Instead we'll choose to resolve Wormfang's trigger first.
- Wormfang's ETB trigger resolves. You skip your next turn.
- Return to step 3.
Next, we need to establish that "skip your next turn" is a replacement effect.
614.1b Effects that use the word “skip” are replacement effects. These replacement effects use the word “skip” to indicate what events, steps, phases, or turns will be replaced with nothing.
And finally, we need to show what happens if you have a hundred replacement effects waiting to replace the same "next" event.
616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below.
That means replacement effects apply one at a time. Therefore, each time you would take an extra turn, instead one replacement effect applies and you skip the turn. The other replacement effects no longer apply to that particular event, so they continue waiting to replace the next turn.