# Scenario 20 - when is the end of my turn?

The haunt is #20, Ghost Bride. I am playing as Vivian Lopez, and I am the traitor.

It is my turn. As Vivian, I do nothing particularly important. As the Ghost Bride, I attack the chosen groom, killing him.

The rules say that, after the groom has been killed,

At the end of each of your turns, advance the Turn/Damage Track to the next number, beginning with 1. The wedding will be complete on Turn 3.

What counts as "each of my turns"? I can think of three possible interpretations:

1. The end of my turn occurs after I have completed taking actions as the monster, and the player to my left starts taking actions.
2. The end of my turn occurs after I complete taking actions as Vivian, and start taking actions as the monster.
3. Both of the above. This means I get two "end of turns" per round.

Each of these interpretations affects when I advance the turn track:

1. After the Ghost Bride kills the groom, I immediately advance the turn track to 1. In subsequent rounds, I advance the track by one at the end of the Ghost Bride's turn.
2. After the Ghost Bride kills the groom, the track remains at zero. Nearly a full round later, at the end of my turn as Vivian, I advance the turn track to 1. In subsequent rounds, I advance the track by one at the end of Vivian's turn.
3. After the Ghost Bride kills the groom, I immediately advance the turn track to 1. In the next round, at the end of my turn as Vivian, I advance the turn track to 2. Then at the end of my turn as the Ghost Bride, I advance the turn track to 3, winning the game.

What is the correct interpretation?

In the rules under "The Traitor's New Powers", it says "After you finish your turn, you move and attack with all of the monsters, if any". This suggests to me that "my turn" ends before the monster moves, ruling out interpretation #1.

Under "Haunt turn order", it says "One player gets two turns: one for the traitor and one for the monsters". This seems to support #3 as the correct interpretation, but it seems unbalanced that the explorers only get one round to defeat me after I kill the groom. Furthermore, if that was the intent, the scenario could simply say "you win the game at the beginning of the traitor's next turn". You wouldn't need a turn track to track that.

During the actual game, I chose #2 since it gave the explorers the fairest chance at winning (IMO). But I'm interested in a ruling that has more evidence than "this seems like the most fun way".

• We would need more information such as the instructions given for controlling the monster. Jan 18, 2019 at 18:30
• If you're interested in the specific rules for the haunt, boardgamegeek.com/thread/1192404/2nd-edition-rules-pdf links to wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/BHH_TraitorRev_120105.pdf. Unfortunately, the comments suggest that these are not the most up-to-date revisions, so caveat emptor. Jan 18, 2019 at 18:36
• You should provide that information as part of the questions using spoiler tags so that people don't have to go to an offsite resource in order to help you. Ideally you could check against your copy to ensure that it is up to date. Jan 18, 2019 at 18:40
• I couldn't find an online resource that was both 1) guaranteed up-to-date and 2) not hosted on a suspicious third-party site, so I erred on the side of not posting any links until I was prompted. I'll be happy to cross-check against my physical copy, the next time I have access to it... Six days from now :-) Jan 18, 2019 at 18:43

Ah, the joys of trying to thrash reasonable and consistent rules out of Betrayal at House on the Hill. Let me give it a shot.

## The answer is probably either 2 or 3. I'd lean towards 2.

The basic rulebook has this to say about turns during the Haunt:

Haunt Turn Order
The first turn always starts with the player to the traitor’s left and goes clockwise (further away from the traitor). Each of the heroes gets a hero turn. After each hero has had a turn, the traitor gets his or her traitor turn. After the traitor’s turn, any monsters controlled by the traitor get a monster turn. (One player gets two turns: one for the traitor and one for the monsters.)

(I've found two versions of the rulebook so far. The wording differed slightly between the two, but not materially in this section)

This clarifies two things: The traitor's turn and the monster's turn are considered separate turns, and both of those turns are considered to belong to the traitor player.

So, the big question then becomes, did the Traitor's Tome mean "you" the traitor, or "you" the player? The rules are (of course) rather vague, but I'm pretty sure they mean "you" the traitor.

For evidence, I turn to Haunt 30, Tomb of Dracula

In Tomb of Dracula the traitor controls monsters (vampires), and uses the turn tracker. Specifically, the turn tracker related rules are thus:

[Setup]
Set up the Turn/Damage track with a plastic clip at 0. You'll use it to keep track of time

You Must Do This...
... at the start of your turn. Advance the Turn/Damage track to the next number, beginning with 1.

Vampires
Dracula needs time to awaken. He doesn't move or attack normally until Turn 2 (he can still defend against attacks.)

Now, if the Turn marker is advanced at the beginning of both the Traitor and Monster turns, then Turn 2 is reached on the first Monster turn, which means that Dracula wouldn't actually have any downtime. Clearly, this is not what is intended, so clearly "At the start of your turn" means "At the start of the traitor's turn" for this Haunt.

Given that "At the start of your turn" almost certainly means "At the start of the traitor's turn" for Haunt 30, I think that it's reasonable that "At the end of each of your turns" means "At the end of each of the traitor's turns" for Haunt 20.

On a more philosophical level, having the turn tracker advance once per round is more logical to me than having it advance once for the traitor and once for the monsters. Since my philosophical intuition, and my rules-based inferences match up, I'm going to go with that.

• On the other hand, the heroes can kill the traitor but leave the monster in play, so suddenly the traitor can't ever win this game even though they've completed what is probably the most difficult part of their mission in this scenario. That makes far less sense.
– Nij
Jan 18, 2019 at 21:08
• @Nij That's a fair point Jan 18, 2019 at 22:27
• @Nij I suspect whomever wrote the rulebook considered the monsters movement to be the second half of the traitor's turn, so my advice would be to treat it as such. Jan 19, 2019 at 5:53
• I would think that it can’t be option 3 as that would give the players 2 turns to win worst case and 3 turns to win best case. What would make most sense to me is that it would be at the end of both turns (or the end of the turn if either the monster or traitor is dead) based on the turn order from that. Jan 19, 2019 at 6:36
• If the traitor is dead, you still advance the counter during the stub of the traitor's turn (this is the only thing that happens, as the character is dead). Apr 23, 2020 at 17:45

Sorry for the late post, but to me, the question is answered in the haunt as written.

"At the end of each of your turns" - Note the 's' at the end of turns. To me, this means after both the traitor and monster. If either is vanquished, the other continues and it is at the end of that turn, so once per round, but after the activity for both is completed for that round - at least that is how I read it.

• Every player has multiple turns, one per go around the table. This doesn't suggest the traitor and monater turns are both counted. Apr 23, 2020 at 19:05

The first turn always starts with the player to the traitor's left and goes clockwise (next to the left away from the traitor). Each of the heroes tales a hero turn. After each hero has taken a turn, the traitor takes his or her traitor turn. After the traitor's turn, any monsters controlled by the traitoe get a monster turn. (This means that the traitor gets two turns: one for his or her own actions and one for the monsters.)

I can understand how this could be read as either 2 or 3, however while the traitor controls the monsters, and the monster's turn, I would say they arent the monster, and only their traitor turn would count for the turn tracker.