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This question is dedicated to a better understanding of a card: Wildcall. The Gather entry has the following ruling.

"Unlike a face-down creature that was cast using the morph ability, a manifested creature may still be turned face up after it loses its abilities if it's a creature card."

I would like to know its exact meaning, and possible use. Thank you!

  • I really do not appreciate the editing done,because I have deliberately written the question very long,adding other news,especially dedicated to the less experienced players,and less experienced than many smartSEusers,which concern an almost complete explanation of the reasons related to other ruling.Thanks to DenisS:but I would also like to restore the part he deleted,forgetting that the question is not written by him.I disapprove of duplication for the same reason.My question would want to shed light onWildcall,with explanations of2of his rulings:it is less generic than the linked question. – ManoFromBerlin Feb 20 at 16:57
  • P.S. Thank you DenisS,but what you call "huge chunk of pointless text" may not be at all for me,as I remain the author of this question. This question is intentionally designed for beginners, unexperienced players unlike you, and therefore makes perfect sense with long writing and with the parts you have deleted. Moreover,in that way it is not even a duplicate, because it contains other info.So, Before twisting it, please ask me for a confirmation.This is not what may be called properly a "democratic action",as SE loudly asks, it seems to me. So please DenisS, check the code of conduct. – ManoFromBerlin Feb 20 at 17:10
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    The fact is that those paragraphs about a different question and a different ruling are not relevant to the question being asked here. Irrelevant information like that does not benefit beginners or anyone else, and makes it harder to see what the main question is. If you want to ask about or provide information about how Manifest and ETB triggers interact, that belongs in a different question. I am removing that text again, please do not put it back. – murgatroid99 Feb 20 at 18:12
  • It's not true at all what you say this time, Murgatroid. I thank you very much for the excellent answer you provided, but the information on the first part of the question is also useful for me, who is the author of the question. Indeed, I will say more: the first part that you deleted "IS" the question. – ManoFromBerlin Feb 21 at 10:04
  • To prove it is my following step,present on the original question:"However,assuming that all the above is correct-if not,please tell me about any errors,in the same answer-this question is going,instead,to shed ... "-in which it is clarified that a novice(as there are many,and,given the constant changes in the rules,as I am too)can also be mistaken in understanding the first of the two rulings of which full explanation required.Your behavior is anti-democratic and unacceptable.I will report the question,and edit it again,because it is my request:not yours,Murgatroid,nor much less of DenisS. – ManoFromBerlin Feb 21 at 10:07
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Rule 702.36e describes how to turn a creature face up using a morph ability:

Any time you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control with a morph ability face up. This is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 116). To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morph cost would be if it were face up, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. (If the permanent wouldn’t have a morph cost if it were face up, it can’t be turned face up this way.) The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don’t trigger when it’s turned face up and don’t have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.

Rule 701.33b describes how to turn a manifested creature face up:

Any time you have priority, you may turn a manifested permanent you control face up. This is a special action that doesn’t use the stack (see rule 116.2b). To do this, show all players that the card representing that permanent is a creature card and what that card’s mana cost is, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. The effect defining its characteristics while it was face down ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. (If the card representing that permanent isn’t a creature card or it doesn’t have a mana cost, it can’t be turned face up this way.)

As you can see in the highlighted sections, a creature with Morph still needs to have the Morph ability to be turned face up that way, but the Manifest rules don't check whether the creature has any abilities. So, if the creature loses its abilities, it can't be turned face up using the Morph ability, but it can be turned face up using the Manifest effect. This is the difference that ruling is pointing to.

The reason for this difference is that Morph is an ability that the card has, and Manifest is something that is done to the card. So, turning a Morph creature face up uses the ability, but turning a Manifested creature face up uses an effect that was previously applied to the creature.

Face down Morph creatures are affected this way by effects that remove abilities because those effects are continuous effects, and if you turn a face down creature face up it is still the same permanent. As a result, a creature affected by an effect that removes abilities wouldn't have the Morph ability if it were turned face up, so it can't be turned face up using the Morph rule.

  • Very interesting indeed. And, in my opinion, very important,too. This is because a phrase that is often said, but which in this case is not very useful, is the fact that a card turned face down (but which has the morph ability when facing up) actually HAS at least one ability. Instead, it is said too often that a morphed card is completely out of abilities (like a 2/2 vanilla), and this is not entirely true. Now everything is much clearer. – ManoFromBerlin Feb 18 at 10:14
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    A face down permanent does not have any abilities on its own. The rule I quoted is very particular about checking what "permanent’s morph cost would be if it were face up". – murgatroid99 Feb 18 at 16:15
  • Ok,but I have some thing to say about it. If what Murgatroid says is true - and surely it is - it remains to be understood how a creature turned face down can lose its morph ability, which concerns the turned down face of that card (the card itself), and not its morphed version (a 2/2 vanilla). If an effect hit the 2/2 vanilla , removing all its abilities, would it also be able to remove the morph ability?In other words,would it also be able to remove the ability present on the side of the card that is not currently visible? As far as I know, it seems to me a NOT practicable operation ... – ManoFromBerlin Feb 19 at 10:26
  • Or in any case, it does not seem to me a viable operation, unless it is admitted that the 2/2 vanilla actually has the morph ability, or at least that there is "some kind of connection" between the 2/2 vanilla and the morph ability present on the other side of the card ... – ManoFromBerlin Feb 19 at 10:29
  • I have added a paragraph to try to explain why it works that way. – murgatroid99 Feb 19 at 17:33

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