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Xorn and Academy Manufactor are both on the battlefield. I cast Thraben Inspector. How many of what tokens do I get?

I see three possible options:

  1. one clue, one food, one treasure.
  2. one clue, one food, two treasures.
  3. two clues, two foods, two treasures.

I guess the question really is, do the replacement effects "see" each other? I assume they do, but can't find a precise answer on the interwebs.

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  • Until Gatherer Updates, the relevant text on Xorn reads "If you would create one or more Treasure tokens, instead create those tokens plus an additional Treasure token" – Soulus101 Jul 13 at 10:16
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    Also taking suggestions for a more generic title, to make this Q&A more relevant to other similar scenarios – Soulus101 Jul 13 at 10:27
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    Title edited, basically just to put "replacement effects" in there. – Philip Kendall Jul 13 at 11:59
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The short answer is no. 2: A food, a clue and two treasures.

Dealing with multiple replacement effects is covered by rule 616.1:

616.1 If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).

...

616.1d Any of the applicable replacement and/or prevention effects may be chosen.

616.1e Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply.

616.1f While following the steps in 616.1a–d, one replacement or prevention effect may apply to an event, and another may apply to an event contained within the first event. In this case, the second effect can’t be chosen until after the first effect has been chosen.

Since investigating makes a clue, the only replacement effect you can apply initially is the Manufactor's, giving you a clue, a treasure and a food. Then you can apply Xorn's effect, giving you a clue, 2 treasures and a food.

It doesn't happen repeatedly because of rule 614.5:

614.5 A replacement effect doesn’t invoke itself repeatedly; it gets only one opportunity to affect an event or any modified events that may replace that event.

So once you've used Manufactor's replacement effect on the investigate event, you can't use it again on that same investigate event.

Xorn's additional treasure is still part of the same modified event that Manufactor has already modified, so it can't modify it again even if there are more things it could theoretically replace. Rule 614.5 has this example on it "A player controls two permanents, each with an ability that reads “If a creature you control would deal damage to a permanent or player, it deals double that damage to that permanent or player instead.” A creature that normally deals 2 damage will deal 8 damage—not just 4, and not an infinite amount."

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    Given that the inspector creates a clue, not a treasure, wouldn't you only be able to end up with scenario 2? – StephenTG Jul 13 at 12:14
  • You're right, I can't read. I'll fix that. – Becuzz Jul 13 at 12:22
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    Xorn's additional treasure is still part of the same modified event that Manufactor has already modified, so it can't modify it again even if there are more things it could theoretically replace. Rule 614.5 has this example on it "A player controls two permanents, each with an ability that reads “If a creature you control would deal damage to a permanent or player, it deals double that damage to that permanent or player instead.” A creature that normally deals 2 damage will deal 8 damage—not just 4, and not an infinite amount." – Becuzz Jul 14 at 16:47
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    This is the same kind of thing, each doubling effect can only apply once to a given damage event, meaning you'd deal 8 damage in that example. If that wasn't the case, it would go infinite. So in this case, you have "Create a clue." Manufactor modifies it to "Create a clue, a food and a treasure." Xorn modifies that again to become "Create a clue, a food and 2 treasures." Since you've already used Manufactor's effect, you can't use it again. – Becuzz Jul 14 at 16:47
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    I think the rulings on Academy Manufacturer actually make the explanation a little more complicated. If you have two of them and you create a clue, treasure, or token, you end up with 3 of each, because the second Manufacturer's effect applies once to each of the tokens created by the first Manufacturer's effect. But those don't invoke the first Manufacturer's effect again, because the final modified events from the second layer are still part of the events from the first layer. Similarly, the Xorn's event of creating two tokens is still part of the Manufacturer's event of creating 3 tokens. – murgatroid99 Jul 14 at 17:09

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