1

According to Rule 101.4a, "If an effect has each player choose a card in a hidden zone, such as their hand or library, those cards may remain face down as they’re chosen. However, each player must clearly indicate which face-down card they are choosing."

According to Rule 101.4b, "A player knows the choices made by the previous players when making their choice, except as specified in 101.4a."

These rules precisely govern, i.e., how to resolve Rankle's first and third effects.

According to Rule 404.3, "If an effect or rule puts two or more cards into the same graveyard at the same time, the owner of those cards may arrange them in any order."

So when resolving, i.e., the effect of Ruin Crab against multiple opponents, each opponent must decide how their cards being milled will be ordered in their respective graveyards. Rule 101.4a almost sounds like it governs this, but choosing a card is not exactly the same as ordering a set of cards. Which of the following resolutions are correct (for a two-opponent game)?

Resolution 1

Both opponents privately view the top three cards of their respective libraries
First opponent in APNAP order privately rearranges their cards into a pile which is later to be placed directly into their graveyard
Second opponent in APNAP order privately rearranges their cards into a pile which is later to be placed directly into their graveyard
Both opponents place their ordered pile into their graveyard

Resolution 2

Both opponents reveal the top three cards of their respective libraries to all players
First opponent in APNAP order privately rearranges their cards into a pile which is later to be placed directly into their graveyard
Second opponent in APNAP order privately rearranges their cards into a pile which is later to be placed directly into their graveyard
Both opponents place their ordered pile into their graveyard

Resolution 3

Both opponents privately view the top three cards of their respective libraries
First opponent in APNAP order rearranges their cards into a pile which is later to be placed directly into their graveyard, and then reveals their pile
Second opponent in APNAP order rearranges their cards into a pile which is later to be placed directly into their graveyard, and then reveals their pile
Both opponents place their ordered pile into their graveyard

Resolution 4

Both opponents reveal the top three cards of their respective libraries to all players
First opponent in APNAP order rearranges their cards into a pile which is later to be placed directly into their graveyard, and then reveals their pile
Second opponent in APNAP order rearranges their cards into a pile which is later to be placed directly into their graveyard, and then reveals their pile
Both opponents place their ordered pile into their graveyard

5
  • Related: boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/5367/…
    – GendoIkari
    Jul 15, 2022 at 18:35
  • 3
    This can only matter if playing with certain very old cards, right? Nothing recent or current care about graveyard order?
    – GendoIkari
    Jul 15, 2022 at 18:44
  • 1
    Well, it matters for compliance. Tournament policy requires players to maintain the order of their graveyards in formats that permit those older cards, even if no one is actually using them.
    – user10478
    Jul 15, 2022 at 19:08
  • On the other hand, outside of tournaments, for example when someone fancies playing a Nether Shadow in Commander, it will be perfectly sufficient for that player to respect graveyard order, while everyone else does as they please. Jul 15, 2022 at 22:24
  • Also related: List of all cards for which graveyard order matters Jul 15, 2022 at 22:26

1 Answer 1

2

It is option 1.

Rule 101.4 is what governs this:

101.4. If multiple players would make choices and/or take actions at the same time, the active player (the player whose turn it is) makes any choices required, then the next player in turn order (usually the player seated to the active player’s left) makes any choices required, followed by the remaining nonactive players in turn order. Then the actions happen simultaneously. This rule is often referred to as the “Active Player, Nonactive Player (APNAP) order” rule.

Note that this doesn't just refer to "choosing a card", but refers to "any choices required". By plain English definition, "arranging cards in an order" is a choice you're required to make.

So all players will make that choice, without revealing anything, because the actual mill hasn't happened yet. Basically, the choice the players are making is how to mill the cards.

2
  • I believe you actually mean option 1, not option 3, based on your explanation?
    – user10478
    Jul 15, 2022 at 19:10
  • Right, sorry. I missed the "then reveals" in option 3.
    – GendoIkari
    Jul 15, 2022 at 19:28

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .