# Does Minas Tirith work with Doors of Durin?

Minas Tirith lets you draw a card (as an activated ability, NOT a trigger) if you attacked with two or more creatures this turn:

1White, Tap: Draw a card. Activate only if you attacked with two or more creatures this turn.

Doors of Durin can put a creature into play attacking.

If Doors of Durin adds a second attacker, will that count for Minas Tirith, or does "attacked with" count only declared attackers?

To the close voters: This is about a player, not a creature or its triggers.

• @PhilipKendall No. I'm just referring to that part because it's ambiguous whether Minas counts attack on declaration or later. Commented Jun 19, 2023 at 10:27
• Which bit of the Kaalia ruling in the accepted answer to that question isn't clear? "Any abilities that trigger [...] when a creature attacks won’t trigger for that card." Commented Jun 19, 2023 at 10:34
• Minas Tirith does not trigger when a creature attacks. Have you read the card? Commented Jun 19, 2023 at 10:38
• While this question is similar to the proposed duplicate, the difference between "whenever X attacks" and "if you attacked with X" is enough to justify keeping this question open. Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 3:04

## 2 Answers

No. According to the Comprehensive Rules:

508.6 A player is “attacking [a player]” if the first player controls a creature that is attacking the second player. A player has “attacked [a player]” if the first player declared one or more creatures as attackers attacking the second player.

So two creatures would be attacking for example a player (instead of a Planeswalker or Battle), but you only would have attacked with one creature.

A separate question about triggers is also explained here:

508.4 If a creature is put onto the battlefield attacking, its controller chooses which defending player or which planeswalker a defending player controls it’s attacking as it enters the battlefield (unless the effect that put it onto the battlefield specifies what it’s attacking). Similarly, if an effect states that a creature is attacking, its controller chooses which defending player or which planeswalker a defending player controls it’s attacking it becomes attacking (unless the effect has already specified). Such creatures are “attacking” but, for the purposes of trigger events and effects, they never “attacked.

So "Whenever CARDNAME attacks" triggers don't, "CARDNAME attacked" doesn't, and the full rule is: "you attacked with this instance of CARDNAME".

• The issue is that declaring attackers and number of creatures attacking can be different numbers. Anything that puts a creature into play attacking already doesn't count the creature at being declared an attacker Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 13:20
• Rule 508.4 is the more relevant one here, as it directly addresses the question
– KMR
Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 23:16
• @KMR Abilities cause effects, but the ability of Minas Tirith is about the player, not the creature. Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 8:01
• Likewise O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami would not exile if you attacked its controller last turn without declaring it. Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 9:27
• @CeesTimmerman you just need to read the last part Such creatures are “attacking” but, for the purposes of trigger events and effects, they never “attacked.”, otherwise you can also just look at the first ruling on Windbrisk Heights
– KMR
Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 22:29

Minas Tirith will not count creatures put onto the battlefield by Doors of Durin.

Clearing up the Activation instructions on Minas Tirith may help here,

Activate only if you attacked with two or more creatures this turn

is divided like this:

Activate only if [player] [attacked with {x} creatures this turn]

The "attacked with {x} or more creatures" condition on Minas Tirith will only count creatures that have been declared as part of the Declare Attackers Step.

This is directly clarified by a ruling on Windbrisk Heights that reads

At the time the ability resolves, you'll get to play the card if you declared three different creatures as attackers at any point in the turn. A creature declared as an attacker in two different attack phases counts only once. A creature that entered the battlefield attacking (such as a token created by Militia's Pride) doesn't count because you never attacked with it.

Which references the last part of rule 508.4 in the Comprehensive Rules

508.4. If a creature is put onto the battlefield attacking, its controller chooses which defending player, planeswalker a defending player controls, or battle a defending player protects it’s attacking as it enters the battlefield (unless the effect that put it onto the battlefield specifies what it’s attacking). Similarly, if an effect states that a creature is attacking, its controller chooses which defending player, planeswalker a defending player controls, or battle a defending player protects it’s attacking (unless the effect has already specified). Such creatures are “attacking” but, for the purposes of trigger events and effects, they never “attacked.”

Combined together; you (the active player) have only "attacked with {x} or more creatures" if you have declared {x} or more different creatures as attackers as part of the Declare Attackers Step.

• Assuming we are correct about the part of my answer that explains that's about its controller, not itself. Commented Jun 28, 2023 at 12:58
• ahh, you need to take the whole "something" to work out when a controller has done that "something", on Minas Tirith the "something" is not just "attacked"
– KMR
Commented Jun 28, 2023 at 23:02
• Two creatures must have attacked, which means per 508.6 that the player declared them attackers. I could take control of creatures who attacked this turn but it's about me having declared them. Commented Jun 29, 2023 at 11:34
• It's about the player (you) taking an action (attacking with two or more creatures this turn), 508.6 is not sufficient here, as you can still activate the ability after attacking a Planeswalker or Battle. 508.6 covers rules text on cards like Curse of Verbosity
– KMR
Commented Jun 29, 2023 at 12:04