How should hands that are EXTREMELY strong in one suit (10+ cards) be bid?

Question

I'm a bit of a bridge noob, but I'm kind of puzzled about this. Say I have a hand that is ridiculously strong in one suit, say at least 10 cards with all 4 honors (I'll use spades for the example suit). how should I bid? This is so many cards that almost nobody will be leading spades but me, so if another suit is trump, I'm flush out of luck.

Obviously I would want to end up playing a spade contract with a good potential for a slam, but if I open too high, say 5 spades, won't my opponents catch on pretty quickly and bid in their own suits or No-trump, just so my spades will be next to useless? They will likely have favorable distributions for their own suits since nearly all the spades are gone, which only worsens the fact. Then again, if I bid to low, my partner may not rebid, and while taking 12 tricks at a contract of 3S is obviously good, knowing you will have that many overtricks from the start seems kind of a waste.

Even if I held 12 or 13 spades, if I bid 7S, won't my opponents just bid 7NT and I'll never get to lead? How should hands with this heavy a distribution be bid to make the most of them?

(I've already said I'm not a very experienced bridge player, so if I'm making any glaring oversights don't hesitate in the slightest to bring them up.)

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NOTE: I know these hands are extremely rare, but in all reality, every single possible hand is rare enough that studying bridge hands is actually quite useless because you'll never see the same hand again in your life...but we do it anyway because that's how we learn. Couldn't you tell anyone asking about a specific hand not to worry about it because it'll never show up again? :D

Answer 1

If you have 10+ spades in your hand, you will never let a contract die out in 3S now, would you?

It really depends on the hand, but people play the following two conventions which might potentially be useful (of course, there might be others).

• Namyats. This is to distinguish hands which are too strong for just preempting 4S. You show stronger hands by bidding 4D (taking spades as your suit), which you could potentially use here, though 10+ would probably be too strong. There are various followups which can be used to investigate slam.

• 4NT opening bid as Ace asking. Say you had AKQJxxxxxx, A,x,x. You could bid 4NT as asking for Aces, and bid the slam appropriately.

Anyway, hands with a 10+ suit are very rare and even experts have trouble with them (or rather, don't bother with them so much, because of the rarity).

As to your question about opponents taking out to their suit, why do you think that is likely to happen? It is quite risky for them to be bidding at the 5/6/7 level, without a running suit of their own. Your bidding at the 4/5/6/7 level would have taken out enough bidding space to make it unlikely they would be able to overcall easily (and find a fit). You seem to be also forgetting that you have a partner who could still hold some cards, and could easily double them and take them for a number. If they do bid, well, you can't help it, but I would say it is not as likely as you seem to think.

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As to your edit.

Yes, any specific hand (down to the spots) is a low occurrence (in fact same chance for each hand!), but bidding systems are not geared towards finding the exact specific hand you have. Bidding systems are geared towards finding fits, distribution and strength with the ultimate goal of finding the right strain and level based on the scoring.

When talking about 'rarity', you should be thinking in terms of hand types rather than specific hands. So when someone says getting a 7 card spade suit is much more likely than getting a 10 card spade suit, they are not talking specific hands, but a set of hands. Take the set of all hands which have 7 card spade suit and the set of all hands which have a 10 card spade suit and compare the counts.

When people say 10+ card suits are rare, they are talking about the whole set.

You might never get the same hand dealt again, true, but the same hand type (say 15-17 balanced) might occur again frequently.

Bidding space is very limited, and trying to cater to rare hands can be inefficient use of that space.

Answer 2

As I previously commented, your question is worth breaking in to two parts:

1) How do you bid long suits?

2) Why do bridge players so often suggest that beginning to intermediate players put off learning to bid certain types of hands.?

I thought this second question to be so good that I separately asked and answered it here:

Why are beginning to intermediate bridge players told to delay learning how to bid certain types of unusual hands?

As to your original question about bidding hands with very long suits, my answer is:

First, throw out the notion of using points to evaluate the strength of the hand. There are so many tricks sitting in the hand that it's a simple matter to count them up, which is a more accurate method for evaluating hands of this type than points.

For example, let's say I have:

• Spades: AKQxxxxxxx
• Hearts: xx
• Diamonds: A
• Clubs:

It's obvious that I can take 11 tricks with this hand automatically. It's also obvious that all I need to take all 13 tricks is for my partner to take 2 heart tricks or to take two tricks in other suits before hearts are played so that I can discard my 2 losing hearts. All of this is very simple reasoning you can do without counting points.

The only question you need to answer about this hand is whether partner has a heart ace, a heart void, or some other strength that might cause you to discard your heart losers before the defense ever plays a heart. If you bid this hand up slowly with a series of forcing bids, you partnership will hopefully get a chance to employ a control showing or control asking bid that allows your partnership to determine if the weak suit is covered.

So, using the Standard American bidding system with weak two opening bids, this hand would be opened with two clubs (indicating strength, and forcing), and if you and your partner correctly employ appropriate control showing/asking bids, you would likely land up in the right contract, if there's no interference from the opponents.

That covers strong hands.

If you have a weak hand, such as 10 spades and no face cards except the spade Jack, then you still have a minimum of 7 winners, and probability favors at least 8 winners. So with the weak hand it makes sense to preempt at an unusually high level of 5 or 6 spades, as your opponents are likely to have a slam contract. Going down 2 or 3 doubled will net your partnership a more favorable result than your opponents making slam.

Note that I'm using a common bridge principle here that suggests that you should bid up strong hands slowly, but jump to a high bid quickly with weak hands that have long suits or other preemptive features.

In summary, the existing tools of your bidding system for dealing with very strong hands and weak hands with preemptive value may be enough to handle hands with exceptionally long suits. Learn these tools well, and you should be able to handle most hands of the type you described without too much trouble.

Answer 3

Hands gain strength in two ways, by the number of high card points, and the number of trumps.

For now, I'm going to assume that you have a minimum hand of your type, that is, 10 spades to the AKQJ and no other honors. Your hand is only "average" in high card points (10), but it is WAY above average in trump strength (most hands would consider themselves lucky to have five). In this case, you can make four spades, so just bid it. Even with 10 to KQJ, I'd bid 4 spades and hope that partner has the one trick I need.

First, your opponents can't bid NT because you'll run the spade suit. They MIGHT have a suit contract at the 5 or 6 level, but your "pre-empt" has taken up so much bidding room, so they might not find it. With luck, you'll take your ace of spades on defense, and if partner has a "little something," you'll be able to beat most five or six level contracts.

It typically takes 25-29 points to make game. If your partner has a "few," your opponents won't have a game.

On the other hand, your FIVE extra spades gives you a lot of extra points. I count each extra trump (over five) as being worth three points. Basically, your hand is worth 25 points (ten HCP, 15 for the extra trumps) if you play in spades, and only 10 if you play in any other suit. That's why you can, and should, be aggressive about bidding spades.

Answer 4

I just played a hand like this at my local club which has dealing machines and all, so definitely a random hand. My partner had 10 diamonds (AKQ, 7 others) and 3 singletons in each of the other suits (one being the QS). I believe he mistakenly opened with 5D because that is premptive and yet, his hand is extremely powerful. In effect, he preempted me as well. We made 7. I thought that a 2C bid seemed more appropriate, however, I learned that the opening of 4NT was the most useful. The consensus was that if his partner had any Aces, then as captain, he could make the decision of whether to go to slam. If partner responds 5C, then he can still bail at 5D. Even opening 1D would be right because you have an opening point count of 11HCP and at least 6 for length, so you know you can always jump to 5D if you have to on the 2nd bid, and possibly be doubled for an added benefit. It was tremendous fun to have that hand to play and discuss. I wish that for everyone to experience at least once!

Answer 5

FWIW, when I was able to play semi-regularly, my partnerships had an immediate opening to 2NT as a Blackwood-style demand bid asking for aces (in addition to the SAYC meaning for 2C). The idea is that 2NT means "partner, my hand is highly unusual in some unspecified way; please let me take control of the auction". The "natural" meaning of a 2NT opening is covered by SAYC 2C (and it seemed worthwhile not to abuse 2C to lie to partner about high-card strength in strange situations - that's "psychic bidding" after all).

Answer 6

Sports Illustrated, in antiquity (1960s) had a bridge column, and it once dealt with the problem. They gave a convincing argument for passing in the early bidding, then work your way as high as you can in your suit. The general idea was to convince the opponents that they'd be better off doubling you for penalties, than continuing with their suits, since you seem to be sacrificing, and have shown a hand that's a total bust.

Answer 7

In addition to Aryabhata's answer, you should consider the possibility that a 12 or 13-card suit is not the result of a random deal. (I don't agree that it's necessarily cheating; the commonest reason is somebody taking a new pack, cutting once and dealing, without checking whether the cards were ordered by the manufacturer). So if you are looking at a 13-card suit, the probability is that all three others are doing the same, no matter what the mathematics say. Bid seven spades just in case, but the deal will be void.

And 7NT over 7S is radically unsound (unless you are in fact cheating). If the wrong person calls, it is a guaranteed 13 down: even if not, there is no reason to think you can make all 13 tricks just because the spade suit will never be touched.

Answer 8

There are 3 approaches really:

1. Scientific approach. You try to ascertain what you can make by communicating with partner. The opponents may enter the bidding, but you want to know who can make what and ensure par is met on the hand.

2. Pre-emptive approach. Assumption that the opponents have something on and you want to leap in at a high level so they find it hard to find their best contract. They may accept being pre-empted or may refuse to let you play it, trying to find their fit at a high level, and your partner might have lots of defence whilst nothing to help you, in which case they'll come unstuck in their 5 or 6 level contract.

3. Bluffing approach. You pretend to have less than you really do. Sandbagging or walking the dog or whatever people might call it. But if you bid 1S then 2S then 3S then 4S you might even get doubled there, and at 5S someone may certainly double you or pass based on "the 5 level belongs to the opponents".

Different players will try different approaches. (3) and (1) can be somewhat combined if you can find out more about partner's hand without giving away too much about your own.

Answer 9

Just one time(maybe because my beck is no good sufferd(i had draw 10 cluds with A K J xxxxxxx And a voice in H. I just thing to call 6c but in trying i understand that is wrong. If both aces or AK in one of 2 is on my opponent 5c is nice only 10 trick is rarely with this hand). But if have both ace is 12 tricks and if A A K is 13 tricks.

So 5c bet is wrong. 6c is also wrong. i must talk to my parents that i have a voice in H and ask him who many Aces haves. This hand is no in real game but in borring opening try. If i take this again i opening 1c And after replay beting 3h(RKCB with Void). The rest is easy with an ace or 2 ace ask with King. If both miss Final 5c is correct. If only an ace miss 6c if all AA is ok ang both King miss 6c And AA K found 7c. My plan...

With 11 cards the thing is looks like the same. 12 with A is at least slam. 13 is out of Question grand slam...