Timeline for What happens when both players run out of cards with Gideon of the Trials and an emblem in play?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
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| Jun 17, 2020 at 9:01 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
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| Apr 15, 2017 at 21:50 | comment | added | TheThirdMan | @Hackworth: Yeah, I was mainly defending your answer this entire time, yet I'm disagreeing with the statement that the game is definitely a draw. | |
| Apr 15, 2017 at 21:19 | comment | added | Hackworth | @TheThirdMan Well that's exactly my point, isn't it? In my last paragraph I did describe how that situation can be considered stalling, resulting in penalties for either or both players. | |
| Apr 15, 2017 at 18:29 | comment | added | TheThirdMan | @Hackworth: What I'm saying is, if you let the players continue passing turns until time runs out, we might be talking something up to 30 minutes. This is unreasonable by any standards, and if you're standing next to that match and watch it for that time, you're doing something wrong. In practice, the timeframe might be closer to five minutes, but even then, with about 30 passes that probably fit into a minute, why would you stall the tournament for two people saying "Pass the turn" 150 times? | |
| Apr 15, 2017 at 12:07 | comment | added | Hackworth | @TheThirdMan In a tournament setting, the game will be a draw when the round ends on time. | |
| Apr 15, 2017 at 11:08 | comment | added | TheThirdMan | @Jefromi: What I meant to say is, at no time will the game be a draw by definition - there's no reason to assume that over the possibility of conceding, for example. You can never say that every judge would decide a certain way, but I'm arguing that it would be reasonable to rule Slow Play/Stalling here if no player took an action. In your example, if a player had a combat trick and just waited for the opponent to attack, but that opponent will never attack because they know this, we're back at a stall. You don't force anyone to do something, but you penalize if neither player does anything. | |
| Apr 15, 2017 at 2:18 | comment | added | Cascabel | @TheThirdMan I mostly agree, hence the "should" in my comment, but I'm not sure the answer quite justifies rounding that up to "a judge will force this". If the players are empty-handed, and clearly can never get through with attackers (e.g. each has a 2/3) then sure, you can say there are no more effects, it'll be a draw. But what do you do if both players have a few cards in hand, maybe including some interesting things (combat tricks, conditional removal, etc), and some creatures? Do you force a player to make the first move if they don't want a draw? Which player? | |
| Apr 15, 2017 at 2:13 | comment | added | TheThirdMan | @Jefromi: It's not a definitive draw on it's own, but consider that both players are able to make the game last last indefinitely if they don't want to lose, and the only way out is to change the game state, for example by handling the opponent's Gideon. Since that's the essence of the situation, and the situation won't ever change on it's own (since there are no more cards to draw, and assuming there are no other effects), it seems sensible for any judge to rule Slow Play or Stalling if the players neither take an action that would shift the game in either player's favor or agree to a draw. | |
| Apr 15, 2017 at 0:05 | comment | added | Cascabel | And while it certainly is true that the players can agree to a draw, and they probably should, I'm less sure about your justification that it is a draw. It seems like you're basing it pretty much on that judge's statement, but that has context like "can't do anything but repeat a series of actions" and "stuck in a cycle of actions where the first player to stop the cycle loses", and it's unclear that applies here, where there could be a way to kill a Gideon and win somehow with what's on board or in hand. | |
| Apr 15, 2017 at 0:04 | comment | added | Cascabel | For the "end of match procedure", the game is automatically a draw, not the match. If it's game 2, the player that was up 1-0 would win the match, right? | |
| Apr 14, 2017 at 21:57 | history | answered | Hackworth | CC BY-SA 3.0 |