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Post Closed as "Duplicate" by Neil Meyer, Andrew, Aulis Ronkainen, Chenmunka, Nij
Edit one wrong card name
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Mycroft
Mycroft
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Suppose that my deck contains a Grindstone and 4 copies of Progenitus, and that every other card in my deck shares a color.

I use Grindstone's ability, targeting myself.

Because every card in my deck shares a color, Grindstone's ability will always repeat. Whenever it mills Progenitus, I shuffle my deck. Eventually (after much milling and much shuffling), my deck is reduced to 4 cards. I know that my deck contains only Progenitus, and therefore that all future iterations of MillstoneGrindstone will have exactly the same result, but my opponent only knows that I have at least 2 copies of Progenitus - the other two cards in my deck could be anything (but are highly likely to be Progenitus).

Hypothetically from my opponent's perspective, I could conceivably mill a card other than Progenitus, which (ignoring the fact that no such cards have ever been printed) could conceivably have a replacement effect which would interrupt the loop. Announcing that this is an infinite loop would require announcing privileged information about my deck.

How do the rules handle this? Am I required to announce that the loop is infinite, even though it contains hidden information, or would the rules allow me to keep milling and shuffling until one of us resigns?

Suppose that my deck contains a Grindstone and 4 copies of Progenitus, and that every other card in my deck shares a color.

I use Grindstone's ability, targeting myself.

Because every card in my deck shares a color, Grindstone's ability will always repeat. Whenever it mills Progenitus, I shuffle my deck. Eventually (after much milling and much shuffling), my deck is reduced to 4 cards. I know that my deck contains only Progenitus, and therefore that all future iterations of Millstone will have exactly the same result, but my opponent only knows that I have at least 2 copies of Progenitus - the other two cards in my deck could be anything (but are highly likely to be Progenitus).

Hypothetically from my opponent's perspective, I could conceivably mill a card other than Progenitus, which (ignoring the fact that no such cards have ever been printed) could conceivably have a replacement effect which would interrupt the loop. Announcing that this is an infinite loop would require announcing privileged information about my deck.

How do the rules handle this? Am I required to announce that the loop is infinite, even though it contains hidden information, or would the rules allow me to keep milling and shuffling until one of us resigns?

Suppose that my deck contains a Grindstone and 4 copies of Progenitus, and that every other card in my deck shares a color.

I use Grindstone's ability, targeting myself.

Because every card in my deck shares a color, Grindstone's ability will always repeat. Whenever it mills Progenitus, I shuffle my deck. Eventually (after much milling and much shuffling), my deck is reduced to 4 cards. I know that my deck contains only Progenitus, and therefore that all future iterations of Grindstone will have exactly the same result, but my opponent only knows that I have at least 2 copies of Progenitus - the other two cards in my deck could be anything (but are highly likely to be Progenitus).

Hypothetically from my opponent's perspective, I could conceivably mill a card other than Progenitus, which (ignoring the fact that no such cards have ever been printed) could conceivably have a replacement effect which would interrupt the loop. Announcing that this is an infinite loop would require announcing privileged information about my deck.

How do the rules handle this? Am I required to announce that the loop is infinite, even though it contains hidden information, or would the rules allow me to keep milling and shuffling until one of us resigns?

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Tim C
Tim C
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Must the infinite loop rule be triggered on a Grindstone and 4 Progenitus

Suppose that my deck contains a Grindstone and 4 copies of Progenitus, and that every other card in my deck shares a color.

I use Grindstone's ability, targeting myself.

Because every card in my deck shares a color, Grindstone's ability will always repeat. Whenever it mills Progenitus, I shuffle my deck. Eventually (after much milling and much shuffling), my deck is reduced to 4 cards. I know that my deck contains only Progenitus, and therefore that all future iterations of Millstone will have exactly the same result, but my opponent only knows that I have at least 2 copies of Progenitus - the other two cards in my deck could be anything (but are highly likely to be Progenitus).

Hypothetically from my opponent's perspective, I could conceivably mill a card other than Progenitus, which (ignoring the fact that no such cards have ever been printed) could conceivably have a replacement effect which would interrupt the loop. Announcing that this is an infinite loop would require announcing privileged information about my deck.

How do the rules handle this? Am I required to announce that the loop is infinite, even though it contains hidden information, or would the rules allow me to keep milling and shuffling until one of us resigns?