Why do effects that exile a card from the graveyard use the characteristics the card had in the graveyard?

Question

Dread Defiler has the ability

{3}{C}, Exile a creature card from your graveyard: Target opponent loses life equal to the exiled card's power.

with the ruling

Use the card’s power as it last existed in your graveyard to determine how much life is lost.

The cards Varolz, the Scar-Striped and Soul Separator also exile cards from the graveyard and check their characteristics, and they have similar rulings indicating that they check the characteristics the card had in the graveyard, not in exile.

These rulings surprise me. I would expect them to check the characteristics of the card as it currently exists in exile, based on the highlighted section of rule 608.2g:

If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself, the effect uses the current information of that object if it’s in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it’s no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object’s last known information. See rule 112.7a. If an ability states that an object does something, it’s the object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the ability.

Deicide, for example, works the way I would expect. It has the text

Exile target enchantment. If the exiled card is a God card, search its controller's graveyard, hand, and library for any number of cards with the same name as that card and exile them, then that player shuffles his or her library.

but its corresponding ruling is different:

Deicide looks at the card in exile, not the permanent that was exiled, to determine if it is a God. For each of the Gods in the Theros block, it won’t matter what your devotion to its color(s) was. The card is a God card when not on the battlefield.

So, why do cards like Dread Defiler, Soul Separator, and Varolz look at the characteristics the cards had in the graveyard, not the characteristics they have in exile?

Answer 1

There is a flaw in the basic premise of the question that these are conflicting rulings on comparable cards.

Deicide has an effect that moves an object to another zone and then further examines that card. This is what 'the expected zone' clause in 608.g covers. There is consistency in the rulings when an effect moves a card between public zones and then checks types using the present tense, it looks in the new zone. (See Defy Death). As opposed to an effect that moves a card between public zones and checks its type in the past tense (lots, Death's Caress). It seems that does not have particularly clear basis in comp rules without rulings clarifying the intended interpretation.

Dread Defiler has an effect that looks for characteristics of an object. Paying the cost for the ability that generated the effect moved that object, but the effect did not move the object.

So the two rulings are not in conflict.

Soul Separator is not doing a conditional check, so, assuming the ruling on it is correctly worded, that seems to be our plausible explanation. If it said "if that card is Power 5 or greater" we'd be in a pickle for which zone to check in I think...

I agree it is entirely possible for a rational person to have come to different conclusions from reading the comp rules and cards in isolation. Sometimes a card like Deicide with odd nonstandard templating just needs the guy who wrote it to explain what they intended. (The use of 'God card' rather than simply 'God' combined with two public zones makes it close to unique. Almost everything that checks the type/subtype of a "card" rather than a game object and involves a zone change also involves a hidden zone)

Answer 2

These abilities refer to characteristics of the card that was exiled, meaning those of the card in the graveyard. Scavenge even specifically says "the card that was exiled". The card in the graveyard ceased to exist when it was exiled.^{[CR 400.7]} Since information is requested from an object that no longer exists, Last Known Information (LKI) is used.^{[CR 608.2g]}

It would be different if it said "the exiled card's power". Then, it would look for the the stats of the object that was created in exile. It can find this new object if necessary.^{[CR 400.7h]}

You're getting hung up on "the public zone it was expected to be in", thinking it means exile when it means the graveyard. That's the only zone the object could possibly be in because objects don't actually move from one zone to another. To move an object is to cause one to cease to exist in one zone, and to create a new one in a different zone.

400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. There are nine exceptions to this rule:

400.7h If an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object. If the cost of a spell or ability causes an object to move to a public zone, that spell or ability’s effects can find that object.

608.2g If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself, the effect uses the current information of that object if it’s in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it’s no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object’s last known information. See rule 112.7a. If an ability states that an object does something, it’s the object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the ability.

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Exceptions

Deicide is the only example that counters this explanation, so I can only surmise its unique wording ("is a God card", as opposed to "is a God") is meant to convey this difference.

Cragganwick Cremator uses the object in the new zone, but the object was moved from a hidden zone, so the natural thing is to use the public object.

Answer 3

Normally, effects that involve cards changing zones will look at the characteristics of the object in the zone the object came from, also known as its last-known information.

608.2g If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself, the effect uses the current information of that object if it’s in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it’s no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object’s last known information. See rule 112.7a. If an ability states that an object does something, it’s the object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the ability.

Looking at cards like Dread Defiler, they refer to "the exiled card" - but that doesn't mean "the card as it exists in exile right now", it's simply a language construct similar to "that card" to provide context for the ability, referring back to what you did initially: "Exile a creature card from your graveyard". That card has changed zones, which is why last-known information is used.

This also explains why Marionette Master, Soul Seperator, and Varolz, the Scar-Striped (or the keyword-ability Scavenge) work the way they do.

This rule feels quite natural for cards that transition from the battlefield to another place. For example, if you control a creature with P/T 3/3, put a +1/+1 counter on it, and then Fling it at your opponent, you expect to deal 4 damage, not 3).

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Exceptions to the above are only made for special cases. Effects look at the characteristics of the card in the zone it has been moved to if...

The card changing zones comes from a hidden zone

As stated in 608.2g, (emphasis mine):

[...] the effect uses the current information of that object if it’s in the public zone [...]

It makes perfect sense not to look at the card before anyone could see it. This is the reason why Cragganwick Cremator works the way it does.

The effect explicitly cares about the card that was moved between zones, instead of the object it used to be in the zone it used to be in

If an effect is phrased to specifically care about a card, such as Deicide does, you're really just looking at the card instead of the object it used to be (similar to how copy effects work). Last-known information is decidedly ignored because the card's creature types at the time don't even matter - what matters is the physical card, and whether that card has certain characteristics.

For comparison, similar effects usually refer to the permanent as it was, which for Deicide would be "If that enchantment was a God" (analog to Dismantle or Filigree Fracture, for example), indicating that last-known information is used as per the default. Deicide, however, creates a new context, with one of the different outcomes being that you only look at the card as it is in exile.

I can only take guesses on why Deicide was templated the way it works, but it seems to be by design within the scope of the Theros block, in order to be able to get the most out of the card, regardless of your opponent's devotion. Unlike the game mechanic that sometimes turns the Theros gods into creatures, while otherwise they just provide extra effects, they are always "there" flavor-wise, using their abilities, and only decide to engage into battle when the devotion towards them reaches a certain level. It that regard, it makes sense that the act of ridding yourself of a God (which is what's depicted on Deicide) doesn't only work on a creature, but also on the enchantment that might eventually turn into one - flavor-wise, there's no difference.