(not sure how this joseki variant is named, feel free to update the title). Josekipedia is saying about this joseki position "Position is settled":

enter image description here

but, after N14, M14, the white group O14 is totally dead. White has free move at L14, black responds L13, and white's influence looks much smaller than blacks, so, in my opinion, it cannot outweight the loss of the O14 group (link here):

enter image description here

So, how come this is a joseki and it's "position settled"? Did I miss something?

  • 1
    Perhaps someone was messing around with Josekipedia and saved their experiments? I see there are no votes for the sequence being right from move 16 onwards, but up to move 31 is claimed since 2014-01-24 to come from Yi Ch'ang-ho - 21st Century Popular Jungsuk, with moves 32 & 33 added last October.
    – PJTraill
    Apr 15, 2021 at 20:12
  • I don't know go enough to understand this joseki but if it is settled, i.e., w tenukis and if the ladder at L14 works for b, I'd die to be b. No way this looks settled, especially if the ladder works for b.
    – ck1987pd
    Nov 18, 2021 at 1:51

1 Answer 1


Josekipedia says that the position is settled, it does not say that the variant is joseki.

If you go back a few moves, you can see white's mistake.

Your assessment that black is better is correct.

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