Specifically, can I counter Dragonlord Dromoka with Voidmage Apprentice's triggered ability?
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"Since Voidmage Apprentice's flipping effect isn't a spell or ability..." - even if it were true, how does it matter? Dragonlord's abilty doesn't say "can't be countered by spells or abilities" - it's just "can't be countered".– tsuma534Commented Feb 12, 2016 at 7:27
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3Kind of funny that the question is also an answer.– MatthewRockCommented Feb 12, 2016 at 9:58
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Note that you can target uncounterable spells with counter spells and abilities, it's just that the countering part won't do anything when it resolves. Other parts of the counter spell might still have an effect, such as gaining life or dealing damage.– HackworthCommented Feb 12, 2016 at 10:25
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3 Answers
No, you cannot counter Dragonlord Dromoka with Voidmage Apprentice.
Dromoka cannot be countered at all, it doesn't matter what is trying to counter it.
Also "When ~ is turned face up, ..." is a triggered ability. So flipping a card face up is a special action that doesn't use the stack, and once the card is face up its ability triggers and is put on the stack.
If instead you were trying to counter something like Abrupt Decay that "can't be countered by spells or abilities." you still couldn't counter it because you would still be using an ability to try and counter it. The "by spells or abilities" rider is there on spells with targets so that if a spell has no legal targets it can still be countered by the game rules.
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10Perhaps worth emphasizing more clearly: the question is simply wrong about this not being an ability.– CascabelCommented Feb 11, 2016 at 18:23
Is there a limit on Dromoka's can't be countered? Nope, so it can't be countered.
And the flip itself isn't an ability, but the triggered counter is an ability.
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I suppose....well, at least Dragonlord Dromoka is easy to banish/unsummon/mind control/tap/....wait, why was I worried about this Dragon? Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 17:07
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1@NRTaylor You worry about the dragon because it makes that player's turn much safer. Combat math is skewed in his/her favor, and casting creatures/spells is much safer. Commented Feb 11, 2016 at 17:10
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2You can still target Dragonlord Dromoka with the triggered ability - the ability just won't do anything when it resolves. There probably isn't a good reason to do so, though. (Maybe to get a stifle target to up storm count?)– Hao YeCommented Feb 11, 2016 at 19:41
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@NRTaylor If you cannot get it off the stack by countering it doesn't mean it has to resolve. You can use Time Stop to exile the spell entirely or Ertai's Meddling to do so for a limited time. For the same mana cost (or possibly cheaper) as flipping the mage, Mindbreak Trap means death by blood cell incompatibility for the dragon flavorwise: blood ties are a dead end,– nullCommented Feb 11, 2016 at 23:04
The answer to the question as written is no. But, the answer to the question in the subject line is different.
The answer is, it depends on your definition of "counter a spell."
If your definition is the usual, technical definition, then as other answers have pointed out, you cannot counter a spell that cannot be countered.
However, if your definition is a bit broader, such as, "stop that spell from resolving, no matter what." Then the answer is YES. Here is what we've found so far:
- Remove the Spell from the Stack. Venser Shaper Savant, and Brutal Expulsion are cards that directly return spells from the stack to their owner's hand. This is a tempo play, but sometimes that's all you need.
- End the turn. Here, Time Stop, or if it's your turn, Sundial of the Infinite are two options. If you have a way to cast sorceries as instants (for instance Hypersonic Dragon) you can also use, Day Undoing but only on your turn will it destroy the stack.
- Kill the player. Sort of obvious, but if you're in a multiplayer game, and someone is casting that creature using a flash ability during Bob's turn, you can "just" kill Bob while that spell is on the stack, and that will stop the spell from coming into play.
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1Don't forget things that directly remove a spell from the stack: [mtg:Venser, Shaper Savant ] Commented Feb 18, 2016 at 14:50